Fast Talk presented by MD3 and Five Star Bodies
Fast Talk: Duels, legacies and Labor Day weekend
After national touring weekend sweeps for Bobby Pierce and Ricky Thornton Jr., our roundtable checks in for the weekly feature presented by MD3 and Five Star Race Cars Bodies (edited for clarity and length):
After Davenport-Pierce, Alberson-Dillard and Madden-Thornton, any thoughts on the next pairing, the amount of policing of such by series, or your personal method of retaliation in similar instances?
Kevin Kovac, DirtonDirt senior writer: No predictions from me here on who will be the next pair to clash — the possibilities are endless after all — but I will comment on how such incidents should be policed. Racing would not be very entertaining or intriguing if some, well, “stuff” didn’t happen on the track that produced some hurt feelings among drivers, so the competitors need to be given the leeway to trade some paint. The Davenport-Pierce and Madden-Thornton deals are perfect examples of two drivers taking it to the limit and getting the fans fired up. When it’s clear that a driver went over the line and stuffs someone in the wall — and even admitted it — like Dillard, then officials need to step in. Determining that threshold is why being an official takes a steady but forceful hand.
Kyle McFadden, DirtonDirt staff reporter: I’ll steer clear from suspecting who might be the next pairing to square off in a heated battle on the racetrack, but I will say, when feuds and duels occur, it gives everyone something to talk about. In my experience on iRacing, the online racing simulator, if someone drives me dirty or even throws an ill-advised slider, it definitely strikes a nerve and you for sure want to retaliate. The best retaliation I can find is landed a big ol' slider that smothers a driver’s momentum. And if that guy really deserves it, I wouldn’t mind if there’s a little bit of contact involved along the way. That’s how I’d get even. Intentionally wrecking somebody isn’t any fun, at least for me. But seeking revenge by throwing sliders? I’m game for that.
Todd Turner, DirtonDirt managing editor: I’ll dodge the first question (but a random pair may square off Labor Day weekend). It’s tricky for officials because those clashes are entertaining in many respects, so you want them to exist, but not bubble over into something ungovernable. As for retaliation, this wouldn’t be my move personally, but old-school guys would keep retaliation in their back pockets for a long time. Years. They’d focus on making it count. The most significant one I remember is an aggrieved Jack Boggs, being lapped by Bill Frye, spinning the leading Frye late in 1996’s USA Nationals at Cedar Lake. The twist: Boggs asked officials to put Frye back up front, and they acquiesced, but damage to Frye’s car cost him a lucrative victory that went to Jimmy Mars.
Kyle Symons, DirtonDirt contributor: I was at Port Royal this past weekend, and honestly I did not see anything wrong with how Chris Madden drove Ricky Thornton Jr. to take the lead on that restart of the Rumble by the River. When you have $50,000 on the line and you get a good enough restart to be able to drive in front of a guy as talented as Thornton you have to take the opportunity. He cleared him and then contact was made after the fact. I have always been of the belief that you have to let the drivers police that type of thing themselves, unless it's a circumstance like the Alberson-Dillard situation where the offending driver admits that he took the other out on purpose after the fact. It creates for interesting situations where there is more excitement over the product on the track, and that's a good thing.
Discuss something else about Lucas Oil’s Port Royal weekend or World of Outlaws action in Oklahoma.
McFadden: I’m curious if Ricky Thornton Jr. can finally take this success he’s had on half-miles and start translating that into career-best finishes, if not a crown jewel win or more, at Eldora Speedway. I mean, RTJ’s been the fastest on big tracks this year and it’s not really a contest. No driver comes close to his eight half-mile wins in nationally touring competition in 2025. Yet there’s something about Eldora that seems to elude him. Is the track too technical for his gung-ho driving style? Does the format get the best of him? Is the aero-factor too much to navigate? RTJ hopes to put some of those questions to bed when he gets to the World 100 next week.
Turner: When Bobby Pierce was lapping Ryan Gustin, Dennis Erb Jr. and Tanner English in Arrowhead Speedway's finale en route to his fourth straight World of Outlaws Real American Beer Late Model Series victory, it’s a reminder that it has mostly become Pierce vs. the rest of the national tour. With respect to Nick Hoffman, who has gamely done his best to keep up, Pierce’s tour dominance is reaching the WoO levels of the heydays of Josh Richards, Darrell Lanigan and Brandon Sheppard. This isn’t news, I realize, but it begs the question of whether continuing to conquer WoO will be Pierce’s future quest.
Kovac: Thornton’s rim-riding performance both nights at Port Royal was something to behold. He was on the fuel through the corners, running that cushion just inches from the wall on a big, fast track very much like a sprint car (the “Anthony Macri Line,” as he noted to Kyle McFadden). That’s the kind of racetrack I love — one with a cushion that can provide a turbo-boost to drivers who dare to try conquering it. It adds a compelling element to a race, and Thornton certainly made it happen up there in a way that thrilled the crowd. Judging by the number of people who visited him in the pits afterward, he made some fans with his high-side theatrics.
Symons: I think we have to look at Bobby Pierce's dominant season after two more victories on the World of Outlaws circuit. Pierce is up to 29 victories this season with plenty of time to rack up more wins. You can compare this run to some of the more dominant seasons over the years, but the fact that Pierce is doing this during a time where so many guys have fast cars on a nightly basis is astounding. I wouldn't be shocked if he reached 40 victories by season's end.
What are your impressions of what Forrest Lucas meant to Dirt Late Model racing?
Turner: He has an amazing rag-to-riches story, so his underdog story is a perfect fit for Dirt Late Model racing’s status in motorsports. The way he’s touched people in our sport is undeniable. Lots of companies preach the treatment of employees like family, and with few exceptions, those Lucas touched talk of his level of genuine care, down-to-earth interests and how much he loved the racing. It’s not hyperbole to say that his investment and commitment in Dirt Late Model racing over 20 years puts us in a far different place than we’d have been without him.
Symons: It can't be understated how much of an effect Forrest Lucas has had on Dirt Late Model racing, and dirt track racing in general. When he took ownership of the Lucas Oil Series in 2005, it was facing stiff competition from World of Outlaws, but Lucas Oil has grown into the No. 1 series in all of Dirt Late Model racing. Their movement towards huge purse events on an almost weekly basis has been great for traveling drivers who do this for a living. On top of that Lucas Oil Speedway in Wheatland, Mo., is one of the nicest facilities in all of dirt track racing.
McFadden: I never met the man, but from all the tribute posts I’ve seen on social media and stories I’ve heard about him in passing, he truly seemed to live the American Dream. I don’t think there’s a number that quantifies the amount of money Mr. Lucas poured into our sport over the years. It’s got to be something astronomical. Without him, Dirt Late Model racing wouldn’t be as prosperous as it is today.
Kovac: Lucas Oil Series director Rick Schwallie told me two things about Lucas that stood out. First, Forrest truly was involved out of a love for the sport; he was a successful businessman who loved motorsports, and in particular Dirt Late Models, and he wasn’t expecting a huge return on his investment. Second, Schwallie said Forrest’s always preached that it “doesn’t cost anything to be nice,” and that’s how he expected all his employees to treat people. Overall, Dirt Late Model racing would look far different today if Lucas hadn’t been part of it. Just consider how many people — drivers, crew members, officials, media, etc. — are able to make a living in the division thanks to what Lucas established.
Pick a random topic you’d like to weigh in on.
McFadden: I so wish Port Royal’s Rumble by the River finale spanned more than 50 laps. Saturday’s winner, Ricky Thornton Jr., likely wouldn’t have changed, but if the track’s going to cash out $50,000-to-win, the finale ought to be at least 75 laps. In 2021, I watched a 200-lap big-block modified race at Port Royal and it was one of the more entertaining features I’ve ever seen. I know that promoter Steve O’Neal’s decision to cap the finale at 50 laps because he sways toward compactor features as seen in sprint car racing. Still, tack on 25 more laps, at least, to the Saturday night finale. Imagine if Ricky Thornton Jr. could’ve ran the wall at the rate he did Saturday for another 25 laps? That would’ve been something.
Kovac: I'll reiterate what Kyle McFadden mentioned about the distance of Port Royal’s feature. I’ve said it before but I’ll say it again: $50,000-to-win Dirt Late Model races need to be longer than 50 laps. They need to stand out, offer something different — and yes, be more difficult to win. Not that a 50-lapper, especially at a big half-mile like Port Royal, isn’t challenging, but as a spectator, I want man and machine to be tested a little more when the mega-money is on the line. Saturday’s feature was entertaining and winning 50-grand for what’s effectively a regular-length series feature is pretty spectacular, but that’s the thing: $50,000-to-win isn’t an everyday payoff. Give me more laps to increase the race’s magnitude.
Symons: I've been thinking a lot lately about car counts and how big events feel during this era of Dirt Late Model racing. It seems every weekend there is a huge paying event somewhere across the country. Years ago, those events would draw all of the heavy hitters from across the country to compete in those events. Now, like this past weekend in Port Royal paying $50,000-to-win and drawing 42 cars, those events feel less special. Don't get me wrong, it's great for the drivers and teams that compete in those events, but the monumental event feel that we used to get seems to a thing of the past outside of a few events each season.
Turner: You’ll have to go to DirtCrown TV to see the highlights, but in Saturday’s Malvern Bank East-West event at Iowa’s Adams County Speedway, there was a dramatic episode in the Ray Houck Memorial won by Jesse Sobbing. Sobbing had led all race long until Bill Leighton Jr. challenged on lap 22. The two made contact in turn four, with Leighton edging ahead as both drivers lost momentum. Chad Simpson’s run in the outside lane carried him nearly into the lead at the end of the backstretch, but he slipped over the banking. A flurry of action from turn four to turn one on a single dramatic lap, but Sobbing ended up regaining the lead for the $4,000 victory.
Make a case for Labor Day as the best racing weekend of the year.
Symons: Labor Day has to be looked at as the biggest racing weekend of the year just due to the amount of racing that takes place. A quick look at the DirtonDirt master schedule shows a ton of events over holiday weekend across the country in all different regions. It allows for so many teams to race and make money on an extended holiday.
McFadden: For starters, there’s no shortage of racing action. Our schedule says we have Late Model racing every night from Tuesday through Monday, and then three days after that, the World 100 starts! Any Dirt Late Model fan loves the sound of that. Plus the weather traditionally makes for some beautiful, beginning-of-fall-like evenings. I love a good night at the racetrack where I’m in a hoodie yet not too cold. That’s what Labor Day brings.
Kovac: Growing up around big-block modified racing in the Northeast, Labor Day weekend was always special — not only the transition to the “fall” with cooler nighttime temperatures typical, but also the line of demarcation between and regular season (track points ending) and big-show season as each succeeding weekend offered different tracks their chance to run a major event. It’s a little different with Dirt Late Model racing because there are so crown jewels and huge-money races all summer leading up to Labor Day, and the biggest of them all, the World 100, immediately follows the holiday, which sort of looms large over the weekend. But Labor Day weekend still has that nostalgic feel to me regardless of the division as the last big weekend of weekly racing for the season.
Turner: The dog days of summer broke with some pleasant weather in the Ohio Valley recently, a reminder of one of my favorite things about Labor Day — the hint of autumn’s arrival. And for Dirt Late Model racing, that means special event season. Sure, we have huge purses and crown jewels sprinkled throughout the schedule, but those fall specials are among the sport’s special traditions. In our sport specifically, though, because Eldora’s prestigious World 100 rests on the weekend after Labor Day, that overshadows the holiday in some ways. Besides the Hillbilly 100, Labor Day to me is largely about weekly tracks hosting specials, track champs being decided and the last, biggest racing weekend of the year throughout the country.
